Ben Tossell11 Earn while you HODL As many of you are probably holding Ether or ECR20 tokens, this project is to help you earn with you HODL. I think it's really interesting way to capitalise on what people are doing naturally. It's why I've chosen to help the team! Disclaimer: I'm an advisor
Jack Kim18 Damn this is one of the best crypto landing pages out there 🔥
Shayne Coplan9 @jack7kim Lol, it's an inside joke for anyone who didn't check the site. Jack designed the landing page 😂
Shayne Coplan23 Hi guys, I’m Shayne from TokenBnk. I’ve been into crypto for about 5 years now. Started with bitcoin and litecoin in ’13 before getting into the Ether presale, and now hold a variety of blockchain-based tokens. I started TokenBnk because I wanted a way to earn ROI on my idle tokens while still being exposed to positive price appreciation. I figured, holding fiat for extended periods of time while earning no ROI seems senseless, and it’ll likely be no different for crypto. With crypto being so volatile, lending it out to achieve ROI isn’t plausible because if it’s lent out in a fiat denominated loan at 8% and ether goes up 50% in the same time frame… you’re screwed. So I thought a lot about ways to generate yield that didn’t rely on lending. TokenBnk is based on the cryptoeconomic theory of financially incentivizing correct behavior. I learned from being in the Ether presale that if you deeply believe a given asset has exponential upside potential, the optimal strategy to capitalize on that is just buying and holding it. Any gains from day trading it in the meantime will be immaterial. So the way it works is you deploy a Savings Contract to the Ethereum blockchain via our interface, then you deposit any variety of ERC20 tokens to it and based on 2.5% of that value, a static withdrawal fee is created (denominated in our native token- legitimately needed as its price reflects demand for withdrawals). When people in the network choose to withdraw and pay their fee, that value gets distributed back amongst all network participants proportional to how much of the total network value their Savings Contract constitutes. At the user’s discretion, they can choose for the value they receive as a reward to be autonomously exchanged back into whichever tokens they’re holding. Above all, I view TokenBnk as an economic experiment only now possible due to advancements in blockchain tech that could ultimately prove to be an integral part and one of the leading methods of storing value in the token ecosystem of tomorrow. I’ll be around today if you have any questions. If you can’t comment and have a question my email is email@example.com We’re going to be deploying TokenBnk to the testnet soon and are looking for beta testers. If you’re interested drop me a line. Pce
Daniel Li5 @tokenbnk @shayneshaynesha Not a blockchain expert so apologies if this question is very obvious. How does the saving account generate yield? You said "the optimal strategy to capitalize on that is just buying and holding it" - how is that different from just leaving the cryptocurrency in your wallet?
Shayne Coplan13 @tokenbnk @d4nyll It's about incentivizing buying and holding. So, the way that the yield is generated is that when people don't buy and hold - i.e. withdraw - they pay this fee. That fee is then distributed amongst all other network participants. That's where the yield comes from. Not a bad question at all
Eralp Bayraktar7 @tokenbnk @d4nyll @shayneshaynesha oh now I understand! you should mention this as this is your business model, we all make money off of people who withdraw. Without a business model this sounded like a scam :) I was wondering how are they making money off something locked by individuals?! Bc that's otherwise pretty hard.
Eralp Bayraktar4 @tokenbnk @d4nyll @shayneshaynesha now you get my upvote ;)
Shayne Coplan3 @tokenbnk @d4nyll @eralpbayraktar hahaha good point. will make that more clear. thanks ;)
nj.events5 How do the depositors ensure they are not Mt. Goxed?
Eralp Bayraktar3 @n_events they don't ;) (edit: this comment is false!)
Shayne Coplan8 @n_events @eralpbayraktar Hey, it's actually non custodial. The value is stored in a smart contract and only you (the person who deploys it) are able to access it. We have no ability to access people's money.
nj.events1 @shayneshaynesha thank you
Shayne Coplan0 @n_events pleasure
Vegard Wikeby1 @n_events @eralpbayraktar @shayneshaynesha now that's something I did not know. Should definitely be emphasized and proven in many ways (for non-tech savers/investors as well) as there is a lot of "hurt" people from earlier MtGoxed instances or just read about it.
Shayne Coplan0 @n_events @eralpbayraktar @vegardwikeby Very good point. Will make it more clear for y'all
Alexander Isora 🦄7 One must be very suspicious about ICOs these days. I will start: - Where is your BTCtalk ANN thread? - Social Networks of the core team members? - Your Twitter/Reddit/Telegram are empty. Have you guys just started out? Why should we give money to such a young team? - Roadmap? - Are you guys incorporated? Thanks for the answers.
Shayne Coplan7 @alexanderisora Hey Alexander, We're just coming out of stealth and thought we'd do product hunt before traditional social channels - maybe a bad decision? We'll do BTC talk probably early next week. You can google any of the core team members and find our socials. Roadmap is in the whitepaper. Yes Totally not a scam. Check our github. Feel free to message me or anyone else. We want to have full transparency, so if you have any other recommendation for us don't hesitate to let us know.
Alexander Isora 🦄5 Hello @shayneshaynesha. Yeah, ProductHunt people may be really suspicious and curious 🤓 One should gently prepare all the stuff before getting posted here. Good luck.
Shayne Coplan7 @alexanderisora thanks. I understand your concern, the industry is filled with crazy stuff and it's right to be vigilant and even play devil's advocate, but I'm confident in the coming few days/weeks we'll prove ourselves to be totally legit.
Ben Tossell5 @shayneshaynesha @alexanderisora Hey Alex, I prepped Shayne and team on the PH launch - I'm obviously biased as its the first stop I'd every go (and recommend) for launches. Especially for first public outreach. But that may be just my opinion. It's great to get a discussion going and answer questions from curious tech people. Also I think many people have their own checklist in evaluating an ICO. Its one of the reasons why I'm working on something in this space (wont plug it here). But many view different parts in different ways. I don't think lack of social presence for a stealth product launched today can be accounted for in this case.
Arleys Resco4 Although the idea seems interesting, i agree with my fellow hunters, we need to know what guaranties and security is provided. A social presence is a first step.
Shayne Coplan3 @fearlex We're just starting our social presence as we're just coming out of stealth today. If you check our github we've been working on this for many months. Feel free to contact me or anyone on the team.
Arleys Resco1 @shayneshaynesha I can understand that. Thanks for the reply.
Shayne Coplan1 @fearlex no problem. Feel free to join our community channels. Hoping to start growing it.
Chris Crompton13 This doesn't sit well with me. The top comment is by the CMO of TokenBnk. The hunter is on their advisor team. There are empty bios when you click on any team member's picture. The download link for the whitepaper says your email "will only be shared with Shayne [the CEO]". The whitepaper says the way users earn on their savings account is through a withdrawal fee - what happens if everyone withdraws? What happens if no one withdraws? The social media accounts are empty or have little to no content. Not saying this is definitely a scam, but at this point it's not enough to sell me on it either...
Shayne Coplan6 @chris_crompton1 Hey Chris, The comment by Jack is a bit of humor as he designed the landing page. As for the Docsend link, it's lead generation. You put in your email for that reason and I used my premium Docsend account, that's why it says my name. As for the empty bios - let me fix that up! Must be a mistake. As for what you say about the product: If no one withdraws, it's likely people in the network will say "hey, I'm not earning anything, I'm out" and withdraw, thereby increasing the reward for those who stay. On the flip side, if everyone starts withdrawing, that'll present an opportunity for people to come in and benefit from the influx of withdrawal fees.
Chris Crompton5 @shayneshaynesha What is the withdrawal fee?
Shayne Coplan8 @chris_crompton1 at the time of deposit, the exchange rate of 2.5% of the ether denominated value of the deposit into TBK (our native token) becomes a static withdrawal fee- meaning the # of TBK stays the same regardless of price movements of your deposit. There are interesting economic implications to this, as the token effectively represents demand for withdrawal. I would definitely recommend you check out the Economic Implications section of our whitepaper if you'd like to learn more.
Daniel Greenberg9 Dope idea. Love to see traditional products being reinvented for crypto.
Tom Howard2 Ok, this didn't make sense to me at first, I think the term bank and savings interest threw me off. At first I thought it was like a lending platform. Getting interest on loans. Actually, it seems to be purely a HODL incentive. Users get penalized for withdrawing in the form of fees. HODLers receive those fees as a reward for HODLing. No fixed interest rate, if everyone HODLs, no interest is earned.
Shayne Coplan5 @thomas_howard1 Correct, but think that last situation through... If the whole network is HODLing, it's likely people will say "hey, I'm not earning anything, I'm out", thereby increasing rewards for others. It's really like a game of chicken at that point. And it's that situation that ultimately proves the successful incentivization of HODLing.
Tom Howard1 @shayneshaynesha haha thats a great point! Very interested to see this experiment unfold!
Shayne Coplan0 @thomas_howard1 thanks my man. Glad you get it. Join us on slack and telegram
Nick Neuman5 I hereby give you my upvote because this is a novel idea that I haven’t seen before, and I think it will be an interesting experiment. That said, I generally disagree with what you’re incentivizing here. Maybe HODL’ing in the short term is a good thing, but over the long term these tokens are meant to be USED. (With a potential exception for BTC as a pure store of value...will have to see how that plays out). Ether is meant to be used to buy computing power. Litecoin’s eventual goal is to be used as a medium of exchange. The reason they are going up in price is due to speculation that demand for the actual use of tokens will increase in the future. Incentivizing people to hodl and penalizing exchange seems like a shortsighted approach to me. What are your thoughts? That said, Godspeed - I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
Shayne Coplan5 @nneuman Definitely a great point. But you should realize that the main use case for all these tokens for the next few years is speculation. I love BAT, but if I'm bull the Brave browser and their ad ecosystem vision I'm inclined to stock up on tokens and hold. There is no doubt that this is what people are currently doing in the market. The market value far exceeds the utility value by any metric of token valuation. People are always going to be speculating on the price of given tokens (new ones will be constantly minted) from this point in time onwards, so there'll always be a use case. So I definitely agree that at some point the goal is to actually withdraw and use the tokens, but I disagree that that means it's optimized for short term. I think we're years away from a lot of these "investments" coming to fruition in terms of utility. And by the time they do, they'll be plenty of other tokens people will want to be HODLing.
Nick Neuman2 @shayneshaynesha That's a good point I hadn't thought about - even after the protocols get built out, tokens will still be minted on a rolling basis and not usable immediately as active networks.
Shayne Coplan2 @nneuman definitely. considering the use case of tokens as a crowdfunding mechanism, there'll always be a use case. in years time there'll be a multitude of different types of tokens. Just like the stock market, there'll always be ones that you'd want to buy and hold - or HODL.
Matthew Boyle2 amazing
Nate Murray1 Neat! I spent about 20m reading the code and this is a smart contract which keeps your Ether and ERC20 tokens (hostage?). When you take your money out, it collects a fee and distributes the fee to the rest of the accounts in the bank. If you join this, you're expecting other people to take out their funds, which will earn you fees. As far as I can tell, it creates a separate smart contract for each user who deposits ETH/coins. This is nominally more "secure" in that no one contract holds all of the balances. However, since they all share the same code they, hypothetically, would all share the same "bug", so I'm not sure how much security this buys you. It's an interesting pattern and I'd like to hear more about that design decision. It also looks like you can hold up to 20 different ERC20 tokens in the current version. One question I have is: why do you need to issue a new token for this?
Shayne Coplan3 @eigenjoy Yup that's the logic behind the separate smart contracts. We'll have to invest heavily in audits to make sure that code is secure: it's the number one priority. I think in a market where most these projects' token economics are non-existent, TokenBnk has one of the best arguments for having a native token. At the time of deposit, based on 2.5% of that value, a static withdrawal fee is created (denominated in our native token). The interesting think about having a static withdrawal fee in our own token is that the token's demand correlates with demand for withdrawal, which brings a lot of game theory into the equation. No token with this logic has ever existed, so it should be very interesting to see how it plays out on the main net. Feel free to ask further questions or read the Economic Implications section of our whitepaper if you're still interested.
Vegard Wikeby14 2,5% earnings for each withdrawal (collectively shared among current holders), so long term holders will be the winners. It's a great business model. Watch out for "real" banks to steal the idea and implement this, because this is quite remarkable. I never thought of this, it's mind blowing when one think of the possibilities as one are collectively supporting the cryptocurrency one are holding and creating demand for it to grow AND at the same time include a method of being able to earn interests on top of it.
Shayne Coplan5 @vegardwikeby I'm glad you get it, man! You hit the nail on the head. I think there's a lot that has to happen before a traditional bank could adopt any model similar to this. Nonetheless, with us being the first to try execute this model, if we see positive results it'll definitely attract other makers in the space to adopt similar ones. It's a privilege to be working on something that's never been done before.
Vegard Wikeby2 @shayneshaynesha Yes Shayne, great work and execution! I do however believe that you'll need to either partner up or license the tech/idea to other banks (or similar entities within financials) willing to start up as you need a strong/reliable/brand name behind to gain the trust for the masses. Then we're (you) talking ;) We've had one to many MtGox incidents!
sam hefnawy0 @vegardwikeby I don’t think it’s great at all , I see this as nonsense model where the bounty/reward is just a penalty of withdrawal action of owned tokens. If there was a trade or sort of revenue/dividend generation I could vouch for it. I guess crypto keep losing its merit due to ideas like this.
[deleted user]3 TokenBnk is a novel idea and an essential component for the rapidly growing token economy. Proud to be an advisor to the project. Access to long-term holding benefits will prove to be invaluable as the space matures.
Dale Brose2 I dig it. Sounds better than keeping the crypto I'm not trading on the exchange in my exodus. Why not make some interest on those idle tokens? OK, up-vote from me. Any sort of referral program? Seems to be the in thing.
Loic Jeanjean4 this is amazing. So many people have been waiting for an eth-based saving account. also love the referral program to help you grow your subscriber list and in return give away 100 million tokens. Smart. Here is my link for those of you on PH who also want some free token as a giveaway: http://tokenbnk.com?referral=Syv_d1KCW&refSource=copy
[deleted user]3 It's very similar to a ponzi scheme. But instead of new "investors" making earnings for the old ones, the ones withdrawing make the earnings for the others. And because it is decentralized there is no person which could be charged of fraud, maybe. It would make sense if the "bank" generated revenue from the money/cryptocurrencies/tokens sitting there by doing investments or loans.
Julián Abad2 Congrats as you have found a very interesting behavioral game based on blockchain. I don't know if the best fit for this is traditional savings accounts (it sounds a bit weird, but not bad). Anyway, it is a very interesting financial experiment and I think you will find more applications for this development.